00:00 - 00:06
right now red hat is an infinite well of
00:03 - 00:09
content all they had to do was stop
00:06 - 00:11
talking every time they talk they make
00:09 - 00:13
the situation worse no matter where you
00:11 - 00:16
stand on the red hat sauce good
00:13 - 00:18
situation you have to admit they're
00:16 - 00:20
really not great at communicating their
00:18 - 00:23
point if they just left it alone people
00:20 - 00:26
would forget over time the problem is
00:23 - 00:28
nobody ever stops talking so red hat
00:26 - 00:30
posted a follow-up over to Twitter we
00:28 - 00:32
will always send our code upstream and
00:30 - 00:35
abide by the open source licenses our
00:32 - 00:38
products use which includes the GPO Red
00:35 - 00:40
Hat Mike McGrath expands upon the recent
00:38 - 00:42
sent to West stream changes and it links
00:40 - 00:45
to a further blog post red Hat's
00:42 - 00:46
commitment to open source a response to
00:46 - 00:50
git.centoes.org changes before we get
00:48 - 00:53
into this I want to make something very
00:50 - 00:54
clear going around and harassing Red Hat
00:53 - 00:56
employees harassing Fedora contributors
00:54 - 00:58
or just someone who uses one of these
00:56 - 01:01
systems whether they support the changes
00:58 - 01:03
or don't support the changes is is not
01:01 - 01:05
at all productive this is not a change
01:03 - 01:07
being made by those low-level Red Hat
01:05 - 01:09
engineers and especially not by this
01:07 - 01:11
community Fedora contributors this is
01:09 - 01:13
the change being made from on high at
01:11 - 01:15
Red Hat it's one thing to voice your
01:13 - 01:18
concerns but please don't be weird about
01:15 - 01:20
it so then let's get started this is
01:18 - 01:22
being written by Mike McGrath the vice
01:20 - 01:24
president of core platforms engineering
01:22 - 01:27
at Red Hat who's been there for 16 years
01:24 - 01:28
and before that was a community for Dora
01:27 - 01:31
contributor this is someone who's been
01:28 - 01:33
involved in this space for a really
01:31 - 01:36
really long time now despite what's
01:33 - 01:38
currently being said about red hat we
01:36 - 01:40
make our hard work readily accessible to
01:38 - 01:43
non-customers I'll get into this in just
01:40 - 01:45
a bit Red Hat users and will always use
01:43 - 01:48
an open source development model when we
01:45 - 01:50
find a bug or write a feature we
01:48 - 01:52
contribute our code Upstream this
01:50 - 01:55
benefits everyone in the community not
01:52 - 01:57
just red hat and our customers this
01:55 - 01:59
point was really never part of the
01:57 - 02:01
discussion I've seen some weird people
01:59 - 02:03
saying oh they might pull their code and
02:01 - 02:05
try to break the Linux kernel but that
02:03 - 02:08
just doesn't really make any sense to do
02:05 - 02:12
much like companies like Google Amazon
02:08 - 02:14
IBM meta these are companies far far
02:12 - 02:15
larger than red hat all of these
02:14 - 02:17
companies contribute code Upstream
02:15 - 02:20
because not just beneficial to other
02:17 - 02:22
projects it's beneficial to them if they
02:20 - 02:23
make a project better that's going to
02:22 - 02:25
make more people want to work on that
02:23 - 02:27
project and make the project better and
02:25 - 02:29
better and better so they don't have to
02:27 - 02:31
go and just develop everything
02:29 - 02:33
themselves outside of things like the
02:31 - 02:36
Linux kernel Red Hat Engineers also work
02:33 - 02:38
on things like gnome system d and a
02:36 - 02:41
bunch of other projects that many of us
02:38 - 02:43
use on a day-to-day basis while it is
02:41 - 02:45
totally fair to not like the companies
02:43 - 02:48
they come from the work these developers
02:45 - 02:50
do should absolutely be appreciated and
02:48 - 02:52
really the first world wouldn't be able
02:50 - 02:54
to function like it does today without a
02:52 - 02:56
lot of these people's contributions we
02:54 - 02:58
don't simply take Upstream packages and
02:56 - 03:00
rebuild them you're gonna see this is a
02:58 - 03:02
fairly recurring theme throughout the
03:00 - 03:04
article at Red Hat thousands of people
03:02 - 03:07
spend their time writing code to enable
03:04 - 03:09
new features fixing bugs integrating
03:07 - 03:11
different packages and then supporting
03:09 - 03:13
that work for a long time something that
03:11 - 03:16
our customers and partners need and yes
03:13 - 03:20
Red Hat Engineers as I said do a lot of
03:16 - 03:21
incredible work however I kind of
03:20 - 03:24
disagree with their phrasing here
03:21 - 03:26
because red hat like most of the
03:24 - 03:29
projects out there are built on the
03:26 - 03:30
backs of giants without all of this work
03:29 - 03:32
that Community contributors have done
03:30 - 03:36
with that be on the gnu project in the
03:32 - 03:38
early days on ffmpeg on your browser on
03:36 - 03:39
your desktop environment on your graphic
03:38 - 03:41
stack and all of these other things
03:39 - 03:44
which I'm sure Red Hat has a part in
03:41 - 03:46
developing without that work from the
03:44 - 03:48
community products like real simply
03:46 - 03:50
wouldn't be possible same with pretty
03:48 - 03:52
much every other District out there when
03:50 - 03:54
we develop fixes for issues in row we
03:52 - 03:57
don't just apply them to Rel they are
03:54 - 03:59
applied Upstream first to projects like
03:57 - 04:02
Fedora sent to a stream or the kernel
03:59 - 04:07
project itself and we then back Port
04:02 - 04:10
them now this is mostly true in most
04:07 - 04:12
situations there are some issues where
04:10 - 04:14
they're placed under embargo first they
04:12 - 04:16
make their way into Rel and then once
04:14 - 04:19
the Embargo is lifted then they are
04:16 - 04:22
released publicly that is absolutely the
04:19 - 04:24
exception and not the rule though but I
04:22 - 04:25
do not doubt that maintaining and
04:24 - 04:28
supporting an operating system for 10
04:25 - 04:31
years is a Herculean task and there's
04:28 - 04:33
enormous value in the work we do
04:31 - 04:36
absolutely and that's why projects like
04:33 - 04:37
sentos existed in the past and nowadays
04:36 - 04:39
you have things like Alma Linux and
04:37 - 04:43
Rocky Linux I know we've been fairly
04:39 - 04:44
positive so far but do not worry red hat
04:43 - 04:47
is not backing down from their position
04:44 - 04:49
in fact you could argue they are
04:47 - 04:51
doubling down I feel that much of the
04:49 - 04:52
anger from a recent decision around the
04:51 - 04:54
downstream sources comes from either
04:52 - 04:56
those who do not want to pay for the
04:54 - 04:59
time effort and resources going into Rel
04:56 - 05:01
or those who want to repackage it for
04:59 - 05:04
their own profit this demand for roll
05:01 - 05:07
code is disingenuous remember that part
05:04 - 05:09
where I said red hat should stop talking
05:07 - 05:11
things like this is why this is how you
05:09 - 05:14
annoy people that already don't like you
05:11 - 05:16
Red Hat my DMs are open there are some
05:14 - 05:18
red hat Engineers who can get in contact
05:16 - 05:21
with me if you want to post a blog post
05:18 - 05:23
that you feel maybe possibly might annoy
05:21 - 05:26
the community send it to me first and I
05:23 - 05:28
will happily proofread it for you I
05:26 - 05:30
don't even need a payment just send me
05:28 - 05:32
the blog post to make sure things like
05:30 - 05:34
this don't get posted we've found a
05:32 - 05:36
group of users many of whom belong to
05:34 - 05:39
large or very large icy organizations
05:36 - 05:41
that want the stability life cycle and
05:39 - 05:43
Hardware ecosystem of Rel without having
05:41 - 05:46
to actually support the maintainers
05:43 - 05:48
engineers writers and many more roles
05:46 - 05:51
that created these users also have
05:48 - 05:54
decided not to use one of the many other
05:51 - 05:57
Linux distributions ultimately we do not
05:54 - 05:59
find Value in a Rel rebuild and are not
05:57 - 06:02
under any obligation to make things
05:59 - 06:05
easier for Rebuilders this is our call
06:02 - 06:08
to make and yes they are absolutely
06:05 - 06:10
correct that it is their air cool to
06:08 - 06:12
make really if they wanted to they could
06:10 - 06:15
say send us a letter and we'll send you
06:12 - 06:17
back a bunch of CDs containing the role
06:15 - 06:19
source code this would be a perfectly
06:17 - 06:22
valid way to fulfill the requirements
06:19 - 06:23
under the GPO and if they want they can
06:22 - 06:25
have the source code behind a login
06:23 - 06:27
screen where only customers of red hat
06:25 - 06:30
can access it and if maybe you go and
06:27 - 06:32
use that source code to rebuild a clone
06:30 - 06:34
of Rel well you're allowed to do that
06:32 - 06:36
but you don't have to be a red hat
06:34 - 06:38
customer anymore and they don't have to
06:36 - 06:40
provide you with future versions this is
06:38 - 06:42
totally within their right to do they
06:40 - 06:45
are allowed to do this the real problem
06:42 - 06:48
is whether they should do this this is
06:45 - 06:51
where the main disagreement arises Red
06:48 - 06:54
Hat wants to run a business a really
06:51 - 06:57
really successful business that yes they
06:54 - 06:58
did have the mass layoffs recently but
06:57 - 07:01
they're still by far the biggest company
06:58 - 07:03
in the entire first world and to do this
07:01 - 07:05
they need to charge for the product they
07:03 - 07:07
offer we have to pay the people to do
07:05 - 07:09
that work those passionate contributors
07:07 - 07:11
grinding through those long hours and
07:09 - 07:13
nights simply repackaging the code that
07:11 - 07:16
these individuals produce and reselling
07:13 - 07:18
it as is with no value added makes the
07:16 - 07:21
production of this open source software
07:18 - 07:23
unsustainable however on the flip side
07:21 - 07:26
you have the rest of the Foss World they
07:23 - 07:28
want to redistribute everything because
07:26 - 07:30
that is their storm and given right to
07:28 - 07:32
do so there is no license fee to access
07:30 - 07:35
the code it is just there and as someone
07:32 - 07:38
wants to go and copy a project Rebrand
07:35 - 07:40
it and now say it's mine they're well
07:38 - 07:42
within their right to do so and this is
07:40 - 07:44
effectively what Olma Linux and Rocky
07:42 - 07:46
Linux are doing whilst it may not be
07:44 - 07:49
financially viable for companies to
07:46 - 07:51
exist in this space you're well within
07:49 - 07:53
your right to free load off of existing
07:51 - 07:54
fast code I know some people are getting
07:53 - 07:56
a little bit antsy about the term
07:54 - 07:59
freeloading but breaking it down to its
07:56 - 08:01
core that is what it is and you are
07:59 - 08:04
allowed to do so if I want to take a
08:01 - 08:07
distro like Arch Linux and Rebrand it
08:04 - 08:09
into concave Linux I can do that if I
08:07 - 08:12
want to take a distro like Fedora Linux
08:09 - 08:14
and Rebrand it into Trilby Linux I can
08:12 - 08:16
do that as well and if your company
08:14 - 08:19
operating in this space like red hat is
08:16 - 08:21
someone is going to take Rel and Rebrand
08:19 - 08:24
it into Alma Linux Rocky Linux or even
08:21 - 08:26
Oracle Linux it would be lovely to have
08:24 - 08:28
a world where nobody needs to worry
08:26 - 08:30
about rent nobody needs to worry about
08:28 - 08:33
food all your bills are paid for and you
08:30 - 08:36
can just work on Foss code and just do
08:33 - 08:38
it for the benefit of society but that's
08:36 - 08:40
just not the world we live in and I can
08:38 - 08:43
understand from Red Hat's perspective
08:40 - 08:45
why facilitating this practice is just
08:43 - 08:47
not viable to running a business however
08:45 - 08:49
I can also fully understand why the
08:47 - 08:51
first world would want to go and just
08:49 - 08:53
take something that exists and Rebrand
08:51 - 08:55
it because that's something you can do
08:53 - 08:58
with pretty much everything else however
08:55 - 08:59
they do have a slightly different stance
08:58 - 09:02
when it comes to distros that aren't a
08:59 - 09:04
direct rebuild I want to specifically
09:02 - 09:06
mention the Rebuilders these are your
09:04 - 09:08
Alma Linux rocket Linux things like that
09:06 - 09:11
as different from distributions that
09:08 - 09:14
might for example add a new architecture
09:11 - 09:16
or compile flag we fully support you in
09:14 - 09:18
expanding Linux capabilities rather than
09:16 - 09:21
imitating them so if you wanted to go
09:18 - 09:24
and take Rel for example and then take
09:21 - 09:26
it in a completely new Direction he's
09:24 - 09:29
saying at least here that that would be
09:26 - 09:31
okay I'd want that written in a legally
09:29 - 09:34
binding contract before I try to use
09:31 - 09:36
something like Rel as a base but he's at
09:34 - 09:38
least seeing it here so if you wanted to
09:36 - 09:41
go and make a new Fedora for example
09:38 - 09:43
using Rel as your Upstream he's saying
09:41 - 09:46
that would be okay but they didn't
09:43 - 09:50
always have this stance there was a time
09:46 - 09:53
where Red Hat had a more let's say maybe
09:50 - 09:55
not friendly but less adversarial starts
09:53 - 09:57
with these Rebuilders there was a time
09:55 - 09:59
not too long ago that red hat found
09:57 - 10:01
value in the work done by Rebuilders
09:59 - 10:05
like Centos and that's why you bought
10:01 - 10:07
them we pushed out srpms out to
10:05 - 10:09
get.sendwest.org in a neat package that
10:07 - 10:12
made them easy to rebuild were even
10:09 - 10:14
debranded it for them more recently we
10:12 - 10:17
have determined there isn't value in
10:14 - 10:19
having a downstream Rebuilder they
10:17 - 10:21
generally accepted position that these
10:19 - 10:23
free rebuilds are just funnels churning
10:21 - 10:27
out Rel experts and turning into sales
10:23 - 10:30
just isn't reality I don't know if this
10:27 - 10:33
is like corporate speak but I don't know
10:30 - 10:36
how you could ever have The Stance that
10:33 - 10:38
using the thing that is identical to
10:36 - 10:41
your product is ever going to lead to
10:38 - 10:43
people buying your product like say for
10:41 - 10:45
example there is an Apple store and
10:43 - 10:47
there is a guy outside the Apple Store
10:45 - 10:49
giving out free iPhones
10:47 - 10:51
who are you going to get the iPhone from
10:49 - 10:53
he also touches on the whole closed
10:51 - 10:55
Source thing that a lot of people were
10:53 - 10:57
spreading around they sent to a stream
10:55 - 11:01
gitlab source is where we build real
10:57 - 11:03
releases in the open for all to see to
11:01 - 11:07
call role closed source is categorically
11:03 - 11:09
untrue and inaccurate sent to S3 moves
11:07 - 11:11
faster than Rel so it might not be on
11:09 - 11:15
head but the code is there if you can't
11:11 - 11:17
find it it's a bug please let us know or
11:15 - 11:19
it's under embargo I don't know why
11:17 - 11:21
they're just ignoring the fact they do
11:19 - 11:24
embargo code like that's not a secret so
11:21 - 11:26
this is the sentwest stream gitlab and
11:24 - 11:27
you can find the source code here now I
11:26 - 11:30
can understand how people got to the
11:27 - 11:33
point close Source because they didn't
11:30 - 11:35
do themselves any favors here Red Hat
11:33 - 11:36
customers and partners can access role
11:35 - 11:38
sources by the customer and partner
11:36 - 11:40
portals in accordance with the
11:38 - 11:42
subscription agreement now it does say
11:40 - 11:45
earlier in this post send to a stream
11:42 - 11:47
will now be the sole repository for
11:45 - 11:50
public role-related source code releases
11:47 - 11:52
but they never linked to the center West
11:50 - 11:54
stream gitlab I assumed that wherever
11:52 - 11:56
the repository was was only accessible
11:54 - 11:57
to customers and partners and this is
11:56 - 12:00
the stance that pretty much everyone
11:57 - 12:03
else had because you simply didn't say
12:00 - 12:06
it existed once again proofread your
12:03 - 12:09
blog post before you actually post it
12:06 - 12:11
now he ends the blog by saying simply
12:09 - 12:14
rebuilding code without adding value or
12:11 - 12:16
changing it in any way represents a real
12:14 - 12:18
threat to open source companies
12:16 - 12:21
everywhere this is a real threat to open
12:18 - 12:23
source and one that has the potential to
12:21 - 12:26
revert open source back into a hobbyist
12:23 - 12:28
and hackers only activity so if you
12:26 - 12:32
weren't sure what position they had on
12:28 - 12:34
Alma Linux and Rocky Linux clearly it is
12:32 - 12:37
they shouldn't exist and if they're
12:34 - 12:39
going to exist they shouldn't be a
12:37 - 12:40
one-to-one clone of Rel they should be
12:39 - 12:43
their own thing that brings something
12:40 - 12:45
unique to the table and from Red Hat's
12:43 - 12:47
perspective I can totally understand why
12:45 - 12:49
they'll want that to happen but from the
12:47 - 12:51
community Unity perspective you are
12:49 - 12:54
taking away this free option that has
12:51 - 12:56
basically always existed sentos existed
12:54 - 12:59
for a very long time you took that away
12:56 - 13:01
Rocky Linux and Alma Linux came along to
12:59 - 13:04
fill that Gap and now you are trying to
13:01 - 13:06
break it again ultimately I don't know
13:04 - 13:08
where I completely stand on this I
13:06 - 13:10
certainly lean a lot more towards the
13:08 - 13:13
community side the side of freedom of
13:10 - 13:16
free software but from that business
13:13 - 13:18
perspective I can understand why Red Hat
13:16 - 13:21
has this position I think the only thing
13:18 - 13:24
I can say conclusively is red hat is
13:21 - 13:25
absolutely terrible communication but
13:24 - 13:28
let me know your thoughts in the comment
13:25 - 13:29
section down below where do you stand on
13:28 - 13:32
this please I don't want the comment
13:29 - 13:35
section to turn into an argument so try
13:32 - 13:37
to keep it civil even saying that I know
13:35 - 13:38
it's not going to happen so let me know
13:37 - 13:40
your thoughts if you like the video go
13:38 - 13:42
like the video and if you really like
13:40 - 13:43
the video and you want to become one of
13:42 - 13:45
these amazing people over here check out
13:43 - 13:48
the patreon scrubs liberope Link in the
13:45 - 13:50
description down below that's gonna be
13:48 - 13:52
it for me and
13:50 - 13:55
hopefully Red Hat doesn't make another
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